HomeРазвлеченияRelated VideosMore From: Sarah Z

Bad Media Criticism

20911 ratings | 308913 views
A completely uncontroversial look into what happens when nitpicks net popularity. https://www.patreon.com/SarahZ Correcting/addressing a couple of miscommunications in the second half of the video: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqomcd --------------------- Quinton's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ds2VwBAw2I Some really great media criticism channels: Lindsay Ellis: https://www.youtube.com/user/chezapoctube Jenny Nicholson: https://www.youtube.com/user/JennyENicholson Big Joel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaN8DZdc8EHo5y1LsQWMiig Nerdwriter1: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nerdwriter1 Quinton Reviews: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM0V8r4kuIWIl6Sy-NHj2lg Now You See It: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWTFGPpNQ0Ms6afXhaWDiRw hbomberguy: https://www.youtube.com/user/hbomberguy
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Text Comments (5200)
Sarah Z (5 months ago)
This should be completely uncontroversial. Captions will be up shortly!
v1adimriro (5 days ago)
Yo, in regards ta yo' goddamn interest in Jeremy Scott, not only be dude not interested N' therez Ain't nuthin' but no one on dis dogg forsaken planet gotta eva want ta be peep wit' a mess such as yourself Yo' r' a rude, ignorant, n' quite frankly vile individual Who the fuck should spent his muthafuckin' free time ta git n' git dat fuckin' monstrosity o' a bush chopped from yo' goddamn big, oversized, fat head Instead o' tryin' ta confuse da adolescence generation wit' child-like jokes n' pranks. Yo' aren't cleva n' yo' aren't funny. Naw pwease, do git fuck yourself. 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
K'hari Jordan (27 days ago)
+Salty Tattie so i haven't seen a video of z saying sorry to lilly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWvyZz6EjkQ&t=2s. so if she did make a video saying sorry let me know.. if she didn't. well that sucks. think this is the only place were i can put something ppl will see.
Salty Tattie (1 month ago)
LET THE DAMN FLY GO, YOU MONSTER.
CyberSurferXD (2 months ago)
+Jacob A. Gallant Funnily enough she didn't even need to. Bite rightfully called this out months ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUYGKrPhAIs
Jacob A. Gallant (2 months ago)
NAH Lily just disproved everything you said in a half hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubvzdREIRj0
Tammy Stone (1 day ago)
you said do do. lol
UltimateAgent25 (2 days ago)
https://youtu.be/WGxGTpjjAsM
nailsnailsgoodinbed (5 days ago)
Preach, I've been thinking this for a while. I've been waiting for someone to come out and say that most video essays are under researched lay opinions presented in a way that lends them superficial legitimacy.
Isaac Marwell (8 days ago)
Why not mention the Plinkett in the room?
Isaac Marwell (8 days ago)
We need a global media governing body to ensure content quality. We need a ministry of truth, if you will.
coldbrewcat (9 days ago)
god, lily's video pissed me off so much. absolutely terrible media criticism.
Kirk Hodges (16 days ago)
I'm sorry I know I'm being negative, but youtuber video essays are so cringe. They just reek of iamverysmart.
Blueiceberg (16 days ago)
I love your ideas, but I wish your videos were more concrete.
Jasmine - Ruff-Puff (17 days ago)
I keep trying to figure out if that ball in the background is yarn.
Alex Marko (20 days ago)
I mean I don't like Cinemasins all that much but it's obviously all for jokes...even if sometimes real opinions are thrown in.
Prince Larbi (22 days ago)
An extremely intelligent view. Keep it up
Sounak Das (22 days ago)
I can say this with definite certainty that Lindsay Ellis is the most learned essayist in the community. And is academically qualified to make points which are theoretically well established.
demagreg (25 days ago)
Sarah Z is garbage and here's why: at 12:23 she says "Doo Doo" and doesn't even giggle at it
Macaroni and Cliches (25 days ago)
Okay Lily did a real dress down and i think she was a real asshole but i cant say I'm correct in thinking she went way too far. She really made it like you were attacking her personally and intentionally, which youre not, but the anger also makes sense considering how much was blatantly wrong? Although I still don't think she's ever talked to a queer person over 30 since she knows nothing about the cultural presence of rocky horror
Macaroni and Cliches (25 days ago)
I can't believe I'm spending so much time going "no that's not true, she said __" over someone I don't even like just because comments don't think you can be anything but 100% right about all things or 100% wrong about all things
Violet K (26 days ago)
God I'm so ready for Sarah to drag Lily Orchard. Still pissed about that video getting popular when Robobuddies made an actual good faith criticism video essay
hedgepig (26 days ago)
The best thing to come out of cinema sins is Shaun responding to one of their criticisms of Mad Max: Fury Road with "thats because it's a good movie."
Hyper Ludicrous (26 days ago)
The nitpicking in cinemasins is kinda supposed to be a character in the same light as the angry video game nerd. The creater himself has pointed out that the shows jokes aren't supposed to be taken as legitimate criticisms.
Kaity Katz (27 days ago)
so basically we need to be critical of the critical too. people should just form their own opinions on things instead of letting others decide what you do and dont like
Samantha Davidson (27 days ago)
I actually watched that Stephen Universe video and realized about 30 minutes in there was no central thesis. When I don't know thr central idea you are trying to communicate in 30 minutes, and saying "thing bad" is not a central thesis, I'm likely not like your broad idea.
Anonymous (6 days ago)
The central thesis is the show sucks.
ColbaltMind (27 days ago)
The title of this video is incredibly ironic.
Rhyannon Ashford (28 days ago)
Cinema Sins never attempted to make criticism, good faith or not. It's a dude whinging about a movie he saw. They make a point of not doing research because they aren't critics and aren't trying to shape opinion of a piece. The major failing of literacy and critical thinking of their viewers isn't their fault nor was it ever their intention to correct it. Just like it isn't the fault of David Fincher or Chuck Palahniuk that shitty, incel manbabies think Fight Club is their manifesto.
ShadowPa1adin (28 days ago)
The funny thing about HBomberguy is that I thought his "X is garbage and here's why" videos were titled in such a hyperbolic way to make fun of the exaggerated "either it's gold or it's crap"-mentality of Youtube media criticism (as HBomb's own takes within were very often nuanced with some jokes thrown in) that was already present. I saw the style of those video-essays as being parodies of something already present in YouTube, not something original that was later imitated and propagated within Youtube without the irony of the original.
The Kirby T (28 days ago)
The nitpicking has gone so far that I just can't enjoy Nostalgia Critic or Cinema Sins like I used to. I much prefer Nando v. Movies, who takes one aspect and then improves on it, and CinemaWins, whose channel boils down to "liking things is more fun than not liking things."
RoninDesBois (29 days ago)
Omg thank you for saying this ! I've been thinking about it for months but i couldn't word it good in my head. Plus i love Jenny Nicholson too i think she's one of the funniest people on youtube. I always prefered cinemawins over cinemasins. I mean it might not be objective either, but at least it spreads much more positivity.
Daniel Escoz (29 days ago)
Oh fuck you for the SU spoilers with no warning
kraiZor (29 days ago)
"Framed as Objective" is the biggest problem with youtube criticism.
Voltairine Kropotkin (28 days ago)
The whole objective/subjective dichotomy needs to be banished from art criticism. Neither term accurately describes what art is.
@1ICHIR0 (1 month ago)
holey shitto this whole time i thought the nostalgia critic and the first guy were the same dude lmaoo
AirMasterParker (1 month ago)
1:55 "It doesn't mean they're always bad people" You know? I 90% agree. The 10% I DISAGREE: lily Orchard. She's a terrible person. I recommend looking up to JustARobot's video on her.
Luke Anstett (1 month ago)
Hbomberguy is a pseudo-intellectual douche. Saying something is garbage just because you have issues with it is arrogant and asserts a completely unjustified sense of dominance over people who would argue the other side. It’s the equivalent of saying “you’re wrong because you’re stupid,” in the middle of a debate.
Danielle 'Smith' (1 month ago)
As a fan of both Nostalgia Critic and Cinema Sins. Yeah. I've always thought the 'joke' of Cinema Sins was that they nitpick things, especially since they 'sin' the same thing regardless of context; narration occurs, that's a sin whether or not the movie is a biography or not. I go to Cinema Sins because I expect them to nitpick things that occur in movies, because they occur in movies a lot. It's like TVTropes. Tropes/Sins aren't bad, but they show up everywhere. But Nostalgia Critic seems like it has 'become the character' a bit too much. Their latest videos are grumpy and less review and more 'story' focused with their in-character tangents.
neckpeck (1 month ago)
... literally how far do you have to reach to consider rebecca sugar a fascism sympathizer
Voltairine Kropotkin (28 days ago)
Anonymous The problem is that Lily Orchard comes across in all her videos as utterly contemptuous of the whole notion of forgiveness itself. She has a real "fire and brimstone" moralism about people who harm others. As for fascism, even if you want to argue that the Gems are totalitarian, there's nothing specifically fascistic about their polity. None of their iconography or even rhetoric evokes palingenetic ultranationalism. The Empire and First Order from Star Wars are fascists in space. The Gems are not.
Anonymous (29 days ago)
Go back to Lily's video and watch the fascism segment. You can't tell me that this show is not overly forgiving of genocidal tyrants.
Little Miss KC (1 month ago)
This honestly reminds me of this one Supernatural episode from really early in the show's run. The Winchesters were on this horror movie set because ghosts were attacking producers, and it turned out that they were being summoned by the writer of the original script. He did it because they kept dumbing down the movie and over explaining everything and-- you get the idea. Anyway, great video, nitpicking is fun to observe while drunk but not while sober and it's fucking everywhere
Blue Topaz (1 month ago)
pretty sure cinemasins and nostalgia critic are purely for comedic purposes.
Voltairine Kropotkin (28 days ago)
That's a cop out. Both argue out-of-character for the validity of the opinions they express in character. But when called out on their mistakes, they throw their hands up and claim "it's just a joke". They can't have it both ways.
Anonymous (1 month ago)
I wouldn't entirely say that about Nostalgia Critic. Cinemasins admits that they're not real critics, so those who do believe they are are idiots. Nostalgia Critic, however, does offer some good criticism. I would say what some miss about some YouTube critics is they're not just about critiquing, but entertaining as well. I come back to Lily Orchard, not just for her critiques, but I also find her funny, although I still listen to her critiques.
Gray hey (1 month ago)
All three of these channels you mentioned at the beginning are comedy channels, one of them doing great forms of research and serious summaries. They are definitely not trying to give extreme in depth video essays...I think youre just having an r/whoosh moment. I just cant watch this video seriously if youre going to use invalid sources for your argument.
Gray hey (27 days ago)
+Voltairine Kropotkin oof I didnt know that. Thats silly then.
Voltairine Kropotkin (27 days ago)
Gray hey As I said, that's a cop out considering that in interviews and vlogs they've expressed that they do want their opinions taken seriously, but then claim it's just comedy when they make an obvious mistake in their analyses. Again, they can't have it both ways.
Gray hey (27 days ago)
+Voltairine Kropotkin I dont think they actually intend to make content that is taken seriously though. Its definitely a different style and medium than real criticism channels that actually want to make genuine critiques on works.
Voltairine Kropotkin (28 days ago)
That's a cop out. They argue out-of-character for the validity of the opinions they express in character. But when called out on their mistakes, they throw their hands up and claim "it's just a joke". They can't have it both ways.
fyxation (1 month ago)
I gave up a few channels that started going this way, and I haven't looked back. Having an opinion is great, but they shouldn't try to shield their opinions as criticism. A lot of "critics" aren't actually critiquing anything.
Bassem B. (1 month ago)
This is why I can't stand TVtropes. This culture of overanalysing, classifying, and picking apart every little detail is both tiresome and boring as hell, just like CinemaSins is. It's the equivalent of the pedantic fan standing up at a fan-con panel and asking a nitpicky plot question that they think is oh so clever and important while everyone around them groans and some marginally involved team member struggles to answer.
Lord Gong (1 month ago)
Other people's content is garbage here's why. Your criticizing other people's criticisms (that they make for comedy shows). Also Winter Soldier is one of the best marvel movie so if they loked at honest trailers to improve there movie they did a great time and others should do this
Bygonya Raya (1 month ago)
I know a lot of people like this type of content, and I have to say, I do watch CinemaSins from time to time (though, less and less). But at the same time I don't get it, like I actively avoid videos that have titles like 'X is garbage and here's why'. I don't expect any actual valid criticism to come from such a title. Sounds like it's inherently bad faith and asinine. Even with CinemaSins I often only watch their videos about movies I like or at least have watched. It's no fun otherwise imo. It's frustrating though because even though refuse to click on those types of vids, I get YT recommending them all the damn time.
Cayugalolly :p (1 month ago)
Confession time- I miss every frame a painting.
Paul Girbovean (1 month ago)
i have a movie 4 you...check this one out...https://youtu.be/TUmyYRaArus
Marcel de Jong (1 month ago)
I see you have Alex Meyers' cartoon stick figure in your thumb nail, but you didn't mention him in your video. Do you think he's a bad faith reviewer, or did you choose his avatar because of his title structure of "such and such TV show is weird and here's why"?
Daemonworks (1 month ago)
... the idea that anyone takes cinemasins seriously is just wierd to me.
Daemonworks (1 month ago)
It's basically a super-minimal riff on mst3k: mocking anything in the movie that's remotely mockable
Kiersten Simpson (1 month ago)
i prefer cinemasins to nostalgia critic any day
Jonel B (1 month ago)
For me it's really ruined like, any sort of community I used to get around sharing what I like with others. Like I'll mention I liked some movie I watched recently and people are like "oh you liked it? HotTakeReviewer says that it was trash and only facists like it" and then it's like...well, I guess there's not much discussion to be had here. I've stopped going to see movies with other people or watching things with other people and just watching it by myself so I can get things without someone deciding to stop the movie 15 minutes in because they don't like it or wanting to leave 10 minutes in to get a refund because they're not immediately loving it.
DSolarisKnight (1 month ago)
I know of and watched most of the people mentioned/shown in this video and many others who are not and due to my knowledge of them I struggle trying to understand why this YouTube video "genre" (a genre of which I love) of movie/tv show/video game essaying is so not diverse. I don't crave a rise in diversity within this side of YouTube but would like to see more but most of all I am curious. My familiarity with it gives me the idea; "Maybe it's a gene thing as to why there are waaaaaaaaay more essayists of European-blood (U.S. and beyond) than essayists of other races." or "Maybe I'm not looking enough due to not going into more non-English essay videos." but even with the latter, I still wonder what is it exactly, psychologically even, that seems to be more prominent (but not universal) amongst Euro-bloods/whites that drives one to make lengthy, very edited videos telling us their thoughts on so much. I have seen a handful of non-Euro-bloods make essay videos but they are almost... almost always not centered on fiction and are generally less edited than most essays (Which I somewhat prefer sometimes). I'm genuinely stumped here. I may be dumb or something for not seeing why after 4 years of study and this comment may go unnoticed but garsh darnit I'll keep looking for an answer!
Espeon 37 (20 days ago)
I would like to point out that you don't seem to show or point out / use audio from Lily's video to prove your points I must ask why you wouldn't use more examples to prove your points Edit: I am not a lily fan I just enjoy giving honest criticism where I can to help people work on creating videos that can prove points in an accurate manner
SpicyBean (1 month ago)
"everyone is entitled to their own opinions" just after you basically saying " I like Steven universe so my essay is right, you don't like it so yours is wrong"
Voltairine Kropotkin (28 days ago)
You completely missed the point of what she was saying. While taste is personal, the arguments Lily Orchard used to justify her claim that Steven Universe is a bad show don't make any sense and/or are flat-out factually wrong.
herrikudo (1 month ago)
3:18 NEVER use Quintin Reviews. EVER. HE LIES. He takes quotes out of context and maliciously misrepresented youtubers he dislikes. You're better than this video Sarah. Discussing movies doesnt hurt anything. It's called criticism. People can like whatever the fuck they want while other people critique it.
talkandramble (1 month ago)
I wanna see your response to Lily Orchard's video about your criticism of her lol
Kyisla Kissida (1 month ago)
Why are those grow men ripping apart a children’s movie?? ITS FOR CHILDREN
Anonymous (19 days ago)
Because you can make a living as a YouTuber
Salty Tattie (1 month ago)
Poor fly.
Miguel Serpa (1 month ago)
Okay, so in this video I get really defensive of another video critizising my favorite children cartoon and make fun of the person who decided to make a video criticizing a children cartoon passive-aggressively, all while maintaining an obvious façade of unbias Nice.
herrikudo (1 month ago)
Lol right? And she used the goddamn liar quintin reviews as reference. Really what do you expect
Katiana Rose Resovich (1 month ago)
not gonna lie... didn't realize so many of these creators get pushed into my feed too. It's harder to find videos like this one ^^^ down the algorithm rabbit hole, going as far as suggesting entire playlists full of videos I HAVE ALREADY WATCHED before it will introduce me to new or smaller channels. Youtube and youtubers, are we sure this is the content users even want to see? anyway, I appreciate your tone and research throughout this video. Thanks for articulating something I've been noticing but couldn't quite put into words and make sense of.
Naief Alromi (1 month ago)
when people started hating on su i was like i disagree but ok then the videos started becoming more and more preachy/ clickbaity and less and less critique like they hate the show cause quote and quote pearl has a crush on rose and it's gross cause gregg but that's not a real complaint and now it's like the cool thing to hate on su and now the su haters are now really violent sometimes critics not only make bad criticism aka hating on unimportant thing but also bully the creators and the fans for the fans criticism is losing it's name
Angry Napolean (1 month ago)
AVGN and Nostalgia Critic characters are not meant to be looked down on by the audience; the character is meant to be hyperbolic for comedic purposes. How you think the viewer is meant to disagree with the Nostalgia Critic is beyond me. What is this about negative criticism being a niche? Shouldn't it follow that criticizing bad content would allow for more material? I really like a show and want to make a video about it; how will I make a video with enough stuff in it that is not just "It's good."? I would say that this point is nitpicking (criticism in bad faith which seems to be your own definition) because you are assuming intent which is, unless admitted to, impossible to discern with absolute certainty. Redletter Media, for example, does not have a niche of hating everything: a good example of this is their Last Jedi and Solo reviews where at least one person had something good to say about each movie. It really sounds like nitpicks, in your opinion, are simply criticism that you disagree with. This whole video screams of format-elitism. If it's not a constructed essay that's spoken, it's garbage. When it comes to criticism, I am of the opinion that it is good if points are made and a creator is able to back them up. What is a nitpick to you may not be a nitpick to someone else. If an adaptation of a book you haven't read got something wrong, it would probably be a nitpick to you since it's inconsequential in your view. Everything about nitpicking is entirely subjective and, therefore, pointless. As for Lily Orchard's video, you did a great job getting a lot of stuff wrong. The title of this video is ironic.Orchard never blamed Sugar, or anyone else as far as I know, for the hiatuses; she blamed them for wasting people's time with filler. There are instances where long stretches of time pass with the story going nowhere, only for viewers to get a filler episode focusing on a background character. It's also appalling that you would not even imply but straight up claim that she did not "do research" because it would take an arrow out of her quiver to attack Rebecca Sugar with. That is bad faith criticism. I also find it hard to believe that you would try and imply that criticism is invalid just because it isn't a "well substantiated essay," like that means anything. What matters is someone making a point and backing it up. You also have a problem with assuming these people are stating their opinion as objective fact; it is possible that Orchard claims they are right, even after getting well-deserved criticism, but this is attacking their legitimacy by trying to paint them as stubborn and disingenuous in order to validate their opinion. Everything you said is entirely subjective and, ironically, you are the one trying to come off as objective.
Alexander (1 month ago)
monokuma in the background is giving me a hint on whomst this video is actually about
ewogau (1 month ago)
Interesting commentary, I can't speak to the rest of cinemas sins subscribers but I actually enjoy the cinema sins of movies that I enjoy more than movies I dislike. I still see it as satire, nothing more but there are more than 6M subscribers and could never speak for them. Otherwise , very well written video.
John Davis (1 month ago)
Cinema Sins is OBVIOUSLY not serious film criticism. It's purely intended as entertainment for film fans. Watch it if it entertains you, otherwise don't.
MelancoliaI (1 month ago)
Yep, I see that Welcome to Night Vale poster. Lovely little community with a *very* high-concept dog park. Anyway, I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with the idea that AVGN/TGWTG were playing characters we were supposed to look down upon in baffled disagreement. Rather, I think the secret of their special hot sauce was to air legitimate criticisms, ones that we all share. But they did it in such a boffo and over-the-top fashion as to cathartically purge us of our grievances with the scrutinized media. What made this so effective was that their target audience remembered a time before the internet, or at the very least a time before social media. A dark age where we could only nitpick movies and video games alone or with friends. What these guys did so effectively was to scream *YOU ARE NOT ALONE, THIS ACTUALLY PISSED EVERYONE OFF* in our ear. In my mind, it was the first step in a process bigger than them or Youtube...possibly as big as the internet itself. We are witnessing the evolution of criticism into its own art form.
Agustin Salas (1 month ago)
This is a fantastic essay!! I respect and appreciate the fact that you go out of your way to clarify that you're not personally attacking or targeting some of the individuals you talk about. You clearly did your research and want to make a point about this trend/issue in a respectful manner. YouTube needs more content from people like you, Lindsay Ellis and Nerdwriter. Keep up the good work!!
Daemon Amdusias (1 month ago)
The omission of redlettermedia and the Plinkett reviews is weird to me... Harry S. Plinkett was an angry nerd guy whining about nostalgic content in video essays back in the 1800's!
Emily Mahony (1 month ago)
missed a chance to title this "Your Media Criticism is Garbage, And Here's Why"
Joana Duarte (1 month ago)
The irony, it hurts
Kaizal (1 month ago)
The video title is on point, this is really bad media criticism.
Hagi (1 month ago)
but I love hbomb
callison caffrey (1 month ago)
How you got over 100k subs is beyond me. This isn't for me at all. Good luck to you and all that though.
callison caffrey (1 month ago)
+rebelL sprouT But people actually subscribed and stayed! Look at her views. I'm actively trying to find leftist channels that aren't incredibly boring to watch, but this is like the meme thing. The right is just so much better at it. Even Sargon is more entertaining than this and he is fat and has a beard.
rebelL sprouT (1 month ago)
pewdiepie shouted her out once
TheSroolik (1 month ago)
No context, the Orange hair/Blue shirt look is very aesthetically pleasing
Rachel L (1 month ago)
I can't tell if you're genuinely confused as to why this would be controversial, but I'm going to assume you are. At the very least, you probably don't understand some of the reasons why this video could come off as somewhat offensive. I've liked other videos you've made and I also like a lot of the video essays you mention made by other youtubers, for example hbomberguys analysis of CAD is probably the most brilliant thing I've ever encountered. Anyways, why you could be getting flack for this: I've not watched it recently, but I've seen Lily's video on stephen universe probably 5-6 times (yes I know I'm a loser who watches too much youtube), and you misrepresent many of Lily's points. For instance, she never claimed Rebecca Sugar stole fan theories and used them in the show. Instead, she argued that the long hiatus and lame gestures toward foreshadowing made people come up with a variety of fan theories, and when some of them came true, this came off as a brilliantly intricate story, when it really wasn't. You don't have to agree on Lily's take on Rebecca Sugar, but I think focusing on this takes away from many of her very legitimate criticisms. The rise of LGBT themes and characters in mainstream media is motivated by profit, not a desire to represent a historically oppressed group. Show creators aren't just trying their best and messing up. They are trying to reach a certain demographic and while they want that demographic's money, it's unlikely they are interested in abolishing the systematic oppression of any minorities. Lily's video does a good job of showing this gesture towards social progress while upholding the status quo. There is a lesbian couple, yet they are physically hidden in most episodes (Garnet). Pearl and Rose are another potential lesbian couple, but the power imbalance in their relationship is hardly explored. There are several black-coded characters, but they're consistently framed as more butch and aggressive than nonblack-coded characters. The show explicitly touches on heavy topics (war, genocide, the human zoo), but will frame these topics as more permissible when done by "good" characters. The show tends to offer up symbolic gestures towards change as solutions over real action. These are all legitimate criticisms. Rebecca Sugar is in a powerful position with a lot of influence and money. Lily is Native transgender youtube creator and a survivor of serious abuse. Cinema sins is an incredibly popular (and lucrative) channel produced by two white men. I don't think your identity should shield you from criticism, but I also think you should consider these power dynamics when you're defending and/or criticizing someone. Lily's dislike of a well-off, very influential media creator is not equivalent to your own criticisms of Lily's content; it's not even really equivalent to criticizing cinema sins. While you maintain an even tone, you are calling Lily's work bad. You compare it to eating potato chips. You and Lily both make similar content, and you made an entire video implying that the work she makes is unworthy and the work you make IS worthy. Lily is not in a more powerful position than you. Arguably, you're in a powerful position over her as you generally have the support and endorsement of well-known creators like Lindsay Ellis. Do you see how this video could be read as bad faith criticism? Lily's angry tone is legitimate, and while you sort of acknowledge this, you also give off the impression that her anger is disingenuous. When you acknowledge it's genuine, you frame it as absurd, e.g. "her personal hatred of Rebecca Sugar". This comes off as patronizing and tone policing. It also disregards why she's upset, and ignores why people may find comfort in her videos. I don't just like to watch angry people. I don't just love an authoritative character. In fact, I generally dislike creators who play-up their anger for entertainment and authoritative characters spouting unresearched hot takes that took no thought or nuance. But I do like Lily's videos because she does think a lot about her points and she does research them. And as a bisexual woman, it's kinda fucking nice to see a trans woman unapologetically trash a show's lukewarm LGBT representation, given its praise specifically for that representation without much attention given to its less-tasteful messages. Many people don't have any opportunity to work in the film or media industry whatsoever. Even if Lily doesn't have a detailed understanding of how the industry works (though she has more understanding than you give her credit for), she makes some very compelling arguments. I'd have loved if you gave more context to how the industry works and where Lily seemed to misunderstand aspects of how it functions, but you didn't. And without that, it does just come of as media criticism gate-keeping. And dead ass, I mean this to be helpful. Much of the points you make in this video are interesting, but I figure it can't hurt to get some perspective on why people may find this controversial. Lily is bound to make mistakes, that doesn't mean her content is junkfood criticism. Lily's tone can be angry, but that doesn't mean her overall message is invalid. And if she reacts angrily towards any of this, it's not surprising as you're sort of discrediting her platform and this is likely her main source of income. And frankly I'm just sick of how quick we are to cancel/discredit people, especially when those people are part of already marginalized, under-represented groups.
Austin Hibdon (1 month ago)
My question, who came up with this style format first? You or Jenny Nicholson?
Violett Bellerose (1 month ago)
In summary, Ellis good, Orchard Bad
ted stapleton (1 month ago)
Why does the comment section feel like it belongs to a different video.
Justin Spencer (29 days ago)
ted stapleton I don’t know maybe its the time vortex breaking and somehow we are falling in between two episodes and only very few of us are noticing it. Mind blown
Lone Matshaba (1 month ago)
U are a lying bitch
diozlives !!! (1 month ago)
Have you heard of Ryan Hollinger? He does mainly horror themed content but he's my favorite video essayist. (No offense, I'm new to your channel and really dig your style. I've just been watching his stuff for years.)
Roxy Woodward (1 month ago)
To be fair, Lily Orchards point wasn't that it was Rebecca Sugar's fault that there were hiatuses. She was more annoied that after a hiatus, the story would focus on something that had nothing to do with the overall story. LIke, after a hiatus, especially if the previous episode ended after a cliffhanger, the story would focus on the mayor of the town, or some side character, ignoring the cliffhanger that people waited so long to see the result off. Her point wasn't that it was Rebecca Sugar's fault that there were hiatuses. Her point was that after this many seasons, Rebecca Sugar should know about these hiatuses, and adapt the story & pacing accordingly. So after a hiatus: seeing what happened with the thing that was about to DESTROY EVERYTHING (or something big like that) instead of Steven bumming around Beach City with his friends, or focussing on some chick's band or something like that.
Lucax Corporations (1 month ago)
Wow. This video is blatant lies and willful ignorance.
Lucax Corporations (1 month ago)
Aww... He deleted his comment. Poor baby.
Lucax Corporations (1 month ago)
Eduardt Storberg - Nice comeback. Sorry to break it to you but your internet girlfriend is not going to like you because you come to her defense like a 2nd grader.
Shivam Kamil (1 month ago)
+Λεωνίδας Νεκροθάφτης Such wit.
nessisasquid (2 months ago)
Sarah watch out monokuma's behind you. Oh my god she's doing a video essay. She can't hear us. Oh my god
Beast for She (2 months ago)
I binge Lindsay Ellis' videos too! :p
Kris (2 months ago)
Eh I enjoy all the blank sins. Theyre funny. I miss brandsins tho. Too bad Shaun made Burnie go insane. Nitpicking is fun until ya try to ruin everyone's enjoyment of something cuz ya didn't like something stupid about it. Ya find this alot in video games as well it's so fucking annoying. Rule of thumb I came up with. If it still sounds interesting after all the complaints and/or the most weird summary the critic makes on it, Ya'll probably like it.
A Violet Lamp (2 months ago)
ugh, no. You should watch Lily's video again.
Brocolli (1 month ago)
I rewatched Lily's video and your video after she responded to this and I think she is right. I do think you have a good point about nitpicky people and the unironic angry reviewer persona and how it affected our ability to judge media in a negative and pretty unpractical way, but when it comes to the parts where you critique Lily's video I think you really fucked up. It seems like you put a lot of words in her mouth, took things out of context to suit your specific point even when editing the video and tone policed her way too much.
barred sins (1 month ago)
She put words into Lily's mouth and claimed that she said Rebecca was responsible for Concrete, which Lily never says. I can not believe anything Sarah says now.
EerieCipher (2 months ago)
Did you even watch her video? Like REALLY watch and LISTEN to her video?
craig campbell (2 months ago)
I've never taken youtube critics seriously, instead I see them more as entertainment than anything else.
Pierre Begley (2 months ago)
G8 b8 m8! I r8 8/8 Seriously this video is total trash. And you should be ashamed for lying and taking Lily’s words out of context. Steven Universe is a trash show for garbage people like you. And Rebecca Sugar deserves any criticism she gets.
Spider12 (1 month ago)
oh look a Lily fan well since I can't really say anything to you kind of people on her videos cause she can't take anyone disagreeing with her I'll just say this here and that's Steven Universe isn't a bad show does it deserve some critiques sure no show is perfect but did Lily also go too far and say bullshit in her video yes
rebelL sprouT (2 months ago)
all the comments after lily's response lol
Zac Lambert (2 months ago)
Hey here come a bunch of people echoing exactly what lily said in her response instead of thinking for themselves
Shivam Kamil (2 months ago)
I love how agreeing with someone apparently means not thinking independently.
Ginika Duck (2 months ago)
+Zac Lambert because they all happen to agree with Lily
Zac Lambert (2 months ago)
Shivam Kamil yeah and it also just so happens that there’s been an uptick in comments defending Lily since she published her response. Totally coincidence, definitely
Shivam Kamil (2 months ago)
What if the conclusion someone came to just happened to be the same as Lily's _long_ before Lily made her response? 'cause, you know... more than one person can have the same opinion. That's a thing that's allowed.
A. A. (2 months ago)
Looks like ya smacked a hornet's nest with Lily Orchard and got her to make a response video.
Animie Luvr (2 months ago)
Why did you feel the need to lie and attack Lily? Why did you not at least research your points?
sega616 (2 months ago)
Aaaaaaaaand you done goof.
Braeburn Sparkle (2 months ago)
Sarah you... you should probably actually watch Lily’s video
Logan Alexander (2 months ago)
why you always lying, mmmmohmygod stop fucking lying!
beril şevval bekret (2 months ago)
Sweetie I watched Lily's ENTIRE video and I can honest to god can say you are not only lying and misrepresenting her but you are also twisting almost ALL the facts she made in that video. I know people like you idetify yourselves with imaginary works of art but.... but this is just sad and disgusting. I usually don't do the what was it called 'fan reactions'? Over negative videos to once's suscribed channels but after seeing this I couldn't stop myself. Please stop lying and misinforming people. They are already stupid creatures that will take everything at face value and never do their own investigation and I know such idiocy really works well for you but...just stop. Be a respectable human being first. And all the people who liked this video go watch lily's video and come back again. Oh and stop building your whole identities on a freaking tv programs because that's just pathetic. Get a life people.
Deathclaw2014 (2 months ago)
Lily just posted a response to this video. At least I think she did, why else would you be in the thumbnail? I didn't watch it by the way.
barred sins (1 month ago)
You should have. Sarah lied about Lily in this video.
Back2TheFuture 2003 (2 months ago)
Well you have the right to your opinions, then again I do as well. You’re a liar about Lily and you’re criticism is infantile. And unlike lily you’re not entertaining. You’re too old and too smart for this to not be disappointing. Rebecca Sugar being Jewish or female or bisexual or dating a black man doesn’t change the fact that she made very poor choices.
LunarCresentKnight (2 months ago)
Are you going to actually apologize to Lily yet for slandering her after she’s got stabbed and raped because you got butthurt about her criticizing your favorite show or do we have to keep doing this? Surely apologizing to a Native American trans lesbian works into your willingness to defend minorities from baseless slander
The fuck are you on about, brony?
VanillaKreem (2 months ago)
I actually watched Lily's video, more than once. You completely twisted ALLOT of what Lily said. Fucking Liar is what you are.
Prove it
The Abominable HO Man (2 months ago)
you are a liar and hace no idea what tou are talking about
Smdcuo Live (2 months ago)
+Hawkatana here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWvyZz6EjkQ
Hawkatana (2 months ago)
Okay, can you explain how, then?
Erica Nair (2 months ago)
You know Cinema Sins videos are merely ironical, right?
Hawkatana (2 months ago)
"Ironical" isn't a word.
Chickenator X (2 months ago)
Matty Granger has an excellent take on this. https://www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/ Abridged: "Well, I've waited a few weeks to write my “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” review and finally, after multiple viewings and numerous vibrant discussions, I feel that I’m ready to give this movie the review it truly deserves. "I gave the film a ton of time to sink in. I analyzed the story structure and plot. I got to know the characters, both new and old, and came to understand the motivations and performances of the actors portraying them. I prepared myself to gush over the rollicking relationship between Poe Dameron and his new Stormtrooper pal, Finn, the brilliant puppeteering of BB-8 and the star-making performance of Daisy Ridley as the burgeoning Jedi known simply as Rey. I was ready to tell you about how much I adored the direction the filmmakers took with the legacy characters of Han, Leia and Luke while making Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren one of the most layered and interestingly flawed villains I’ve ever seen. I was excited to prognosticate over clues that were left in the film to set up the remainder of the series. Sure, the movie has its flaws. It’s a little heavy on the nostalgia and there are a few moments that are little too convenient for me, but there are a million other things I loved that quickly outweighed those problems. I’ve spent the last few weeks searching for precisely the right words to convey just how excited “The Force Awakens” has made me for the future of the franchise and planning how I would use those words to write a fair and balanced review. "But as I sit down to write that review…I simply can’t. "And here’s why… "The Huffington Post’s article, “40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens”. "Over the last few weeks I saw this article reposted over and over both by folks in the film industry and outside of it. The reposts often carried captions from Facebook users like “Yep!” or “This is exactly my problem”. Oh shit. Did I miss something? Maybe the Huffington Post and half of Facebook saw something I didn’t. I needed to know more. So I read the article. I read it numerous times. In the end, I came to my own conclusion… "The Huffington Post has no idea what the fuck it’s talking about. "I don’t know about the rest of you but I’ve grown exhausted with the horseshit, hater culture that online, millennial ‘journalists’ use to click-bait their way to some sort of self-perceived intellectual high ground. Hate first. Don’t bother asking questions later. "After all the thought and effort I put into prepping my review, the Huffington Post article had somehow stunted my ability to write about the new “Star Wars” movie. But I refused to be deterred. Thus, this article is not intended to review “The Force Awakens”. It’s intended to rip the head off the Huffington Post’s dumb-ass review and shit down its still-gasping esophagus. "Now, keep in mind I’m not a professional reviewer or even a journalist. I’m just a regular guy who has spent the better part of his life dedicated to studying story structure, plot, character, scene study and script development while working on twenty some-odd motion pictures over the last seventeen years. I might not be the guy to question the Huffington Post’s lofty review, but I’ll give it a shot. "So what are these “40 Unforgivable Plot Holes” and why is the Huffington Post ass-backward in their review? I blame it partly on the click-bait era. I also think that being a contrarian dick makes people feel intelligent. But those aren’t the reasons the review is horseshit. It’s horseshit because it really seems like the reviewer didn’t watch the movie at all. "Let’s take a look at these 40 “holes” and see just how hard I can plug them." [... 40 bullet points later ...] "As some of you may be able to see, the ‘plot holes’ outlined in the Huffington Post‘s article are not plot holes at all. They’re simply things to which the reviewer willingly turned a blind eye due to the fact that he went in with a prepossessed notion of what he was going to write. His notion was so strong in fact, that he was able to completely overlook clear and obvious parts of the movie in order to back up the ‘facts’ of his dumb-shit, preconceived article. "That’s not journalism. It’s internet horseshit. "We are very close to reaching the end of social media’s usefulness. Anyone with a keyboard can write anything they want with little to no training or skill. More often than not, the articles don’t even need to be true or have any sort of back up research and sadly all it takes is a bold, contrarian statement to convince people who aren’t interested in doing research for themselves that something wildly incorrect is truth. This extends from simple movie reviews to horrifying humanitarian crises. Actual news has become a rare commodity and we are little more than targets for advertising and electoral votes. We are being fed stupid disinformation and tricked into thinking we have knowledge that we don’t actually have. "We have willingly grown stupid. "In the end, I had to look up who the twenty-something, hate-filled, millennial troll who wrote the Huffington Post article actually was. I imagined some smug, little bearded shit with horn-rimmed glasses and that typical douchebag air of millennial entitlement. At least then I could chalk it up to youth. However, what I found made this all the more disturbing. He isn’t a millennial at all. "The forty year old writer, Seth Abramson, is an Assistant Professor of English at the University of New Hampshire and a graduate of Harvard Law School. What a shame. I guess when you’re hired to write click-bait articles for horseshit news-sites, your education comes after your pay-check and you do what you’re paid to do. "Nice work Seth. "Wake me up when the war against fun is over." "M"

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